"This post is inspired by two angry anti-American commenters at this blog, commenters who have called me a 'hater' and 'terrorist' because of their inability to rebut the opinions I have expressed: Ben Sutherland and James Casper."First off, I don't understand why the guy insists on using unrelated posts and off-topic links in his replies. The post below to which he originally linked (or Ben's, for that matter) have nothing to do with the topic about which he's whining. Does he not realize it, or does he simply not give a shit?
Second (after reading the whole of his piece & Snooper's), I don't know who I feel more sorry for; Snooper (who served his country at least, but returned with such hatred for his fellow citizens), or this guy, who appears to come by it all naturally, and without any similar sacrifice.
Neither Ben or I are anti-American. We both love our country, and speak to it's values and our own, generally without much in the way of belittling others, including those who disagree with us. In fact, Ben & I don't even come from the same political side ourselves--he a Libertarian, and me a Green--but we do see this blogger the same way... A pompous blowhard who'd rather puff up with "righteous indignation" at everyone & everything he deems an enemy (many of whom are his fellow citizens, rather than the "real" terrorists--which is a charge he tosses at others pretty often, but obviously fails to recognize in himself...) One becomes anti-American (or a "nihilist," or a "Stalinist," or a "socialist," "radical" "extremist" or... or...) simply by disagreeing with the guy or showing him up. Folks can decide for themselves whether I've done so (there are many exchanges between this blogger & I, both on my blog and his) but I will say that Ben pegged him down like a howling polecat in his very first comment, and the guy has seemingly never recovered from the slight, as evidenced by his post denouncing us.
The guy all about the propaganda... And as others have pointed out, he's been getting meaner & more spiteful to those among his fellow Americans who don't share his political or social views since his man McCain (as well as many other hopefuls in his party) lost the election. It's fine to be angry and to flail his arms at the sky damning everyone for not believing as he believes if that's what he wants. But he'll have to learn to forgive the rest of us (both left & right, apparently) for seeing such screeds as the unbalanced nonsense that they are and daring to say so.
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19 comments:
Ben's deleted comment from Nero's blog (in case anyone doesn't get the e-mail)
It's so funny you say all this, Donald.
I just got invited to join Net Right Nation right after this little exchange.
How the fuck about that.
Something tells me that your brand of conservatism is not the future that Americans have in mind.
Posted by Ben Sutherland to American Power at December 2, 2008 5:03 AM
I read the post and most of the linked content.
I found nothing in the original post on the pledge that sounded hateful, unless you take the act of refusing to say the pledge as hateful in itself.
As a card carrying member of the "I try to follow Jesus" club, I often wonder how a Christian can even pledge his or her allegiance to a flag, or country.
Is not that action of pledging, [which is in effect saying you will give the ultimate sacrifice] making that flag, or object of your allegiance a "graven image" something pretty much ruled out in the big 10?
And I ain't talking football conference here!
Hi Repsac, I read your exchange over at the asylum today. Going off about the typos is really rich. They came onto me over there once because I pointed out that Douglas had misspelled pastor as "paster," during the Jeremiah Wright uproar.
Congrats go out to Ben on the new gig. I hope to see real Conservatives ostracize the fuck out of people like Douglas and Snooper. That's some muck you don't want associated with your party.
But, good luck to Donald Douglas and Mark Harvey as well. Lyndon LaRouche and John Birch got movements named after them. That's something to shoot for. They seem to be on the right track.
I went back over to get a link to Ben S. to congratulate him. I forgot about the strawmen students. That was even better than the typo thing. In one comment he has the disadvantaged students who say how much they hate anti-Americans like you. In another comment he has disabled Iraq vets who hate anti-Americans like you. Suffice it to say that all of his students hate anti-Americans like you.
Apparently, southern California is a hotbed of hatred for liberals despite what you may have been led to believe.
From DD's blog written by DD:
And, to those that created the environment that enabled a Marxist to get "elected" - via voter and campaign fraud unchallenged - I have many things to say but primarily, may you rot in hell and I hope I have the pleasure of sending you to your final destination.
I got this far and decided that, assistant college professor notwithstanding, DD is an extreme rightwing nut and does not deserve serious consideration. Period.
He is angry, frustrated, and dangerous. But why give him more exposure? Oh, wait, I get it, it's better to give light to these sorts than to let them fester in the dark. Okay.
More DD:
There is no forgiving you...not in my lifetime.
He'll never forgive those who voted for Obama in his lifetime? Really? Because I voted for someone he does not approve of, he hopes I rot in hell, and he'll never forgive me? And people read him as though he were a serious, thoughtful person? HINT: He's not.
America used to know who she was at one time. In recent times, we knew for nearly a whole month. Then, the anti-Americanists of Code Whore Pink Sluts and Pigs and other such Marxist shits oozed from under their spider holes and began their usual nonsense ... as their mommies and daddies did while toking on a number and digging on the radio. It would behoove all to go here and find out what it really is the government does for you...and to you. And, everyone should count their blessings for having the honor of living in the still greatest Nation on Earth, the America bashing sycophants of the new world order aside and not withstanding.
Anyone who thinks those words were written by someone in his right mind is not in his/her, um, right mind.
Shaw Kenawe:
I did not write that, you freak. That's from Mark Harvey.
I wouldn't use the same language, but I do endorse the sentiment. Harvey is more clear on America's internal enemies than most people I've come across.
Not only are you folks nihilist, none of you is too bright either.
Yeah, Nero is right in defending his "honor," there...
He didn't write those words... He only quoted them approvingly.
Of course, the fact that Anyone who thinks those words were written by someone in his right mind is not in his/her, um, right mind. still stands.
And all the freakish namecalling done by either of 'em doesn't do a thing to change that "I hate my fellow Americans" thinkin' that's becoming so pervasive among some elements on the right.
That they find it impossible to work for the changes they seek in a positive way, & without attacking those who don't share their political & social goals, is just plumb sad. But this need to demonize "the other," whoever they may be, seems to be the only thing that keeps these types going. As long as they see us as an "enemy," rather than as fellow Americans who just don't share their politics, they have no need of common decency, which I guess makes them feel more powerful, or something.
I could never live my life that way, and I predict that they'll reap the same hatred they sow. Bright as Nero may be (& I happen to think he is, which makes him all the more pathetic), he lacks the human decency God should've given him, and the values America should've instilled in him. That he claims to speak for both, while understanding so little about either, baffles me. But in the end, I really feel sorry for him, living in a world he so reviles, and is so powerless to change to his liking.
I am incredulous that this dialogue with Donald Douglas has gone as far it has.
Any student or teacher of the American political system would understand certain basics about democracy, a two-party system, participatory government, and constitutional guarantees of free speech, free assembly, and the anti-establishment clause, etc. Nooo, Donald Douglas has not mastered even the basics. I can't imagine any professor treating students in same the manner he heaps sneer and jeer upon you.
For a so-called professor of political science to lay claim to moral absolutes and label any/all who disagree as nihilists and traitors should be a clue to all of you ... the man lacks academic integrity.
His self-congratulatory statements punctuated with ad hom attacks on others ... should be another clue ... the man has a pathological personality disorder. One might as well argue with a psychotic or sociopath or a self-appointed tyrant.
If you want a spirited argument, try Robert (Conservative Commentary blogspot). Although true to his beliefs, Robert is a gentleman and respectful of others.
I have found it useful to point out to Robert that there is a shared heritage called "our country" and there are areas of common ground as well as areas of disagreement. Robert agrees, and that forms the basis of our dialogue and friendship. With a normal and reasonable sparring partner, there are opportunities to learn and to teach.
But not with Donald Douglas. Adrenaline rush notwithstanding, he is a total waste of time.
Worst of all, in caving to his penchant for attention, you are supplying the ego food to nourish his narcissism. Do you really want to do that ... and continue subjecting yourself to his kind of sicko stuff?
Case in point, I left a comment earlier today and got back this reply:
(O)CT(O)PUS said...
[Quoting Donald Douglas] The most disadvantaged ones, and those who have served, thank me for my instruction and moral integrity, and they share with me their shame at anti-Americans like yourself.
Beware: Persons who make self-congratulatory claims like this should not be believed or taken at face value without independent verification. Any Internet buffoon can make up stuff like this. It takes a discerning reader to see through the facade.
(December 3, 2008 8:54 AM)
In reply:
Mark Harvey aka Snooper said...
Beware: idgits like octagonbrain is an idgit.
December 3, 2008 9:16 AM
My point ...
You are not even dealing with adults but with children lead by a sicko cultist.
Hey I made the Wingnut category!!! Thanks man!!! I appreciate the link, lol!
@ Dave: I believe that Donald & those like him are saying that not Pledging Allegiance to the Flag is itself hateful and un-American. They are confusing the "map" with the "territory," and claiming that any disrespect for the flag (& assuming that not pledging to the flag *is* disrespect, in the first place) is disrespect for the country itself, which of course is hogwash.
I would be interested to know how some of those folks there would respond to that Christian query (particularly Donald's resident theocrat, Grace -- I could've picked almost any one of her comments there... Most are chock full of "America is a Christian nation, and she (Yes, Grace herself) will bring God down to smite the Obama lovin' liberal unbelieving demons" goodness. Yikes!!), but I'm not even going to bother asking... While I'm sure it'd be entertaining, it would only ignite yet more of this silly back & forth, and (O)ct(o)pus below is correct; Whatever good I once was doing myself or others there, at this point I'm just wasting my time... Donald's insufferably large ego will not permit him to admit any wrong (or even argue logically, anymore) and the most vocal members of his fan base are growing ever more strident & scary crazy. While I'm sure it won't be the last time Nero & I cross paths--not the least of which because he has this habit of linking to me in his posts as a bad example of somethin' or other--I am going to try to wean myself away. Intelligence is only good if it's used intelligently, and Nero ain't using the brains God gave him to blog, anymore... (But I hear tell that his students still love him. Just ask him...)
Thanks for the comments...
@(O)ct(o)pus: You're right, you're right, & I know you're right... Whatever I once thought I saw in him, Donald Douglas has become a nut, and the proof of it is in the fellow nuts he's gathering into his hidey-hole.
While I don't think Donald will ever actually sound or be as intellectually bereft as his new buddy Snoopy, with his "idgits like octagonbrain is an idgit." comment, Nero is essentially reduced himself to that level of argument; Namecalling & labeling of others, with nothing but more of the same verbal violence to back it up.
I have been following Robert's comments at "our" blog (if I still may call it that, given my lack of participation recently). Seems like a good guy... I will pay him more mind, both at his blog & The Swash Zone. (Maybe I just need a more nautical/lizardy name... You don't suppose the repsac is some kinda as yet undiscovered species of amphibian, do ya? While it may not help me blog there more, it couldn't hurt... 8>)
I'll do what I can to avoid feeding the wingnut troll (or being the wingnut troll, if you look at it the other way) as much as possible.
But yes, as we've discussed before... I am Repsac3, and I am addicted to the crazy... But I'll do what I can... 8>)
@ Critical Thinker
Yeah, you must've written something I really liked (or really disliked) somewhere along the line...
Wear your Wingnut appellation well & in good health... We Moonbats'll be watching your every move, now that we have the link.
(Before anyone gets all freaked out about my "Wingnut/Moonbat" namecalling here, please read my very first post on this blog, which might help to explain not only this comment, but my overall philosophy of trying to get along despite our differences: I am a moonbat.)
Repsac3, glad to hear that you're taking the pledge and getting on the wagon. It's still a good show over there as long as you stay in the audience. There's no point in trying to enter into debate, though.
Someone today wrote a nicely reasoned, rational, polite response to a post. Herr Doktor blew him off with a nasty, one sentence reply.
He's only looking for sycophants. Someone left a comment once remarking on how he gives each of regulars a doggie treat after they praise one of his posts. That seems about right.
Repsac3,
Fair enough Rep. You and I talked many moons ago, it was reasonable commentary. So, please feel free to stop by anytime, I love debate as long as it isn't based in stupidity. So to you all you moonbats, I prefer libtards, it is an open invite. Bring it, lol.
I was just commenting over at my site about this whole episode, repsac3.
I actually feel bad about the whole thing. I'm not looking to tear people down. I just got frustrated with the self-righteous posturing and the pretending like the matters of conscience didn't matter just because Donald or anyone said so. I usually try to get to know someone before I tell them I think they're being kind of a jerk. I need to do better in the future.
I was telling you over at my blog, repsac, that it's so funny that I got that invite. The truth was I spend most of my childhood and young adulthood as a fairly active liberal. My parents and I were peace activists and poverty lobbbyists.
As I got older, I got clearer how the self-righteous posturing undermined reasoned discussion, I think. I think it's actually the much bigger problem in the world, in my view. It's one of the central theses of my work.
I just want political discussions and debates to take place based more squarely and honestly on reason rather than self-righteous posturing, especially when the stakes are life and death. The best ideas, from conservatives, from liberals, from whomever, need our attention, I think, repsac. I think we've seriously fucked that up, right now, as much as it has generally been worse in the past.
It makes me sad, repsac. Because it's all so futile and foolish. And so many people get hurt, in the bigger picture. It's not just conservatives and liberals in the West. It's all of us, I think. All of the worst ugliness is premised on the notion that because I have all the right answers, therefore all of the ugly ways I look at others and treat others is justified.
There's got to be something better, I think.
That's really the core of who I am and how I think, these days, repsac.
Thanks for your comments over at the Professor's place, by the way. It was a good reality check for a whole lot of rationalization.
Good luck in the gay rights efforts, out there. I think most folks, including Donald, need more patience on this one, as much as I share the impatience of folks in California and everywhere.
I live in Kansas, so we will have to be patient about people getting more comfortable with something so basic as marriage. Kids are much more undertanding about all of this, of course. But their grandparents and parents need more time, apparently.
We'll get there. I'm confident of that. Even when I disagree with my fellow Kansans, Americans, and most people, for that matter, I have confidence that people are generally decent. They'll come around. Just takes time. With some hindsight, now, we know that, while we can understand Martin Luther King's urgency with civil rights, people came around pretty remarkably from then to now.
Maybe even Donald Douglas might see, at some point, that his shit stinks like the rest of us.
I know. The impossible dream:).
Talk soon.
Ben
How very professorial to state "I did not write that, you freak." He must be taking semantics lessons from Mike's America.....
@Ben:
I actually feel bad about the whole thing. I'm not looking to tear people down.
That makes you a better man than either Don or I... I stopped feeling bad about exposing Donald long ago, and tearing people down is the heart of Don's game. If it helps, I know I should feel bad about it, even though I don't.
I'll have to keep reading your blog to better understand where you're coming from, but I agree that reflexive (political, religious, social) partisanship does hurt the exchange of ideas, and therefore all of us. Even knowing that, I'm certain that others see me as just the kind of reflexive partisan I'm decrying here, and I'm just as certain that there are times they're right, even though I cannot or will not see it as it's happening.
Most of us believe we come to our ideas about the world and the way things should be through reason and reflection, but the draw to agree with one's ideological peers just because they are ideological peers is strong, and needs to be continually watched & questioned...
As for the gay rights thing, I was a bit taken aback by the vote, but I was out-n-out offended by Donald's gloating about it & some of the outlandish comments & claims he & others of his ilk were making on the subject.
While I am a middle-aged white heterosexual from the (far) eastern suburbs of NYC, I feel it's important for me to stand up--ideologically, anyway--to those who want to treat other Americans as lesser citizens based on the gender of the person they love. I agree that given time, it'll change... But there's no reason I can't do what I can to help it along...
@BB:
As a fellow veteran of both blogs, I can say that even now, Don hasn't sunk as low as Mike... ...though he has sunk significantly since I first started reading there.
(I once thought Donald was the reasonable right-winger I was seeking, and perhaps because I was comparing him to Mike, he kinda was... But compared to regular, intelligent, well-mannered people... ...not so much.)
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