Reply to Americaneocon | 09.28.08 - 6:45 pm
"The war in Iraq was tied over and over again to the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, when that link was nonexistent."
That is a quote from the antiwar left...
Anyone reading the sentence understands this as discussing a link between Saddam and 9/11.
Yes, discussing & dismissing an operational link between 9/11 & Saddam, just as the 9/11 Commission & Bush himself at various points since have done. How this applies to your claim that this quote about operational ties to a specific event is the same as saying absolutely no ties at all, and allows you to treat this one quote as evidence of a common argument claiming no ties at all, I'm not sure...
As I said in my last comment, at best you found one quote that's anywhere near the mark. I even said you might, at 5:16 pm yesterday, saying: "I've no doubt that there are some on the left who make the claim that Saddam Hussein had absolutely no ties to al Qaeda, but just the same, it might help if you quote someone who actually makes that claim, and debate against that person, rather than generalizing that if anyone on the left says it, everyone on the left believes it."
What I said then, is still true.
The next two links do not discuss the anti-war left or whatever claims they are or are not making at all, but buttresses the Hayes conspiracy theorists. I'm pretty sure Dan Nexon addressed that above, saying "...while his intelligence services had some contact with the group (as did many intelligence services... that's what their job is) he had no operational links."
Whether or not Hayes & his merry band of theorists are correct or not, his beliefs say nothing to prove or disprove your claim that "one of the antiwar left's most common attacks on the Iraq war is the claim that Saddam Hussein had absolutely no ties to al Qaeda." Why you keep injecting his theories is beyond me...
You are changing the goalposts. All of the government's investigations, and the work of conservative journalists and bloggers has been to rebut the left's claim that there were absolutely no operational ties... which the left has claimed for years.
Since when were you speaking about operational ties? Read your claim again: "one of the antiwar left's most common attacks on the Iraq war is the claim that Saddam Hussein had absolutely no ties to al Qaeda..." Nothing about operational ties there, mate. And when various people brought that up earlier in the thread, you called it picking nits, as though there was no difference between "absolutely no ties" & "operational ties," even though that is the very difference that most rightwing bloggers hang their hat on, given the unambiguous statements about no operational ties between Saddam & AQ that anyone can read in the 9/11 report & elsewhere.
Tell me again how you're not shifting the goalposts, Donnie. (Or show me & the readers here where I had the goalposts set initially, and where I've moved them, if you really believe I have...)
In fact, Donnie, almost everyone claims no operational ties, from the antiwar left to the 9/11 commission to Bush. It's a pretty common belief here in America, and by no means only found on the left. And, while there are some rightwing bloggers & Con journalists who do try to rebut that belief, the government--your government--has said repeatedly that there were no operational ties, and no Iraqi links to 9/11.
The left has claimed Saddam/al Qaeda ties were non-existent
I think you're getting confused... That isn't a fact. That is the claim I'm asking you to prove, with evidence. At best, you've found one guy who talked about the lack of Iraqi ties to 9/11, and was clearly speaking about operational ties to that event, rather than no ties whatsoever. (Bush did the same, but I'll spot you that one, just the same.)
Kennedy was also talking about Saddam & 9/11, and thus operational ties, rather than absolutely no ties. (And just a few sentences down at the Gallup link, they quote Bush saying the government has no evidence that Saddam had anything to do with 9/11. (Damned nihilist leftie). He too, is discussing the lack of operational ties.)
You can go ahead & claim victory if you like, but perhaps you ought to figure out what it was you were trying to prove... I thought it was your claim that "one of the antiwar left's most common attacks on the Iraq war is the claim that Saddam Hussein had absolutely no ties to al Qaeda... But that cannot be what you thought you were proving, since you only quoted one person on the left who even said that, and the context of his remark indicates pretty clearly that he was referring to operational links, rather than any links at all... ...just like those well known nihilist radicals, Bush & the 9/11 commission.
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